All Points Bulletin

[chrisinajar]

Basically it's GTA the MMO

APB - gameplay footage

I signed up for the beta, it sounds pretty fun....

[Daguava [BBC]]

Looks fun. Hopefully it runs a lot better than gta4, that shit's not the least bit optimized for pc >_<

[chrisinajar]

Well, this game is indeed made for PC, so it should run pretty well... I never played GTA4 for PC...

[Daguava [BBC]]

I signed up for the beta, we'll see what happens.

[beeji]

gta4 for PC- there is a reason they were selling it for 7 dollars. I found that out the hard way

[Daguava [BBC]]

I missed out on buying it for $7, I would have paid that. Instead I just had to pirate the fuck out of it.

[FuLLBLeeD]

Looks pretty cool, I'm not too hot on a monthly subscription fee.

Also Daguva, piracy is never the answer, bad Daguava! When you pirate a game you basically give up all right to complain about DRM.

[Daguava [BBC]]

I'm gonna buy it if it ever comes back to about $7 dollars, I'm not paying more than that since it plays shittily (new word)

I pirate a lot of shit, so too bad (I also don't complain about drm)

[chrisinajar]

I used to pirate a lot more, now I only pirate games with DRM... So, I got no complaints against DRM, it just means more free games for me.

Assassin's Creed 2 is currently downloading...

[froggeh]

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/2/19/

[chrisinajar]

I only pirate games with DRM...

They took a problem and found a non-solution for it. The fundamental flaw with DRM is that even if I buy the game, I have to pirate it too. The concept of pirating a game, song, or movie I payed for blows my mind. Any technology that essentially forces you to be a criminal weather you obtain their product via legitimate means or illegal means is a technology that should be illegal.

Counterpoint comic: http://xkcd.com/488/

[FuLLBLeeD]

I used to pirate a lot more, now I only pirate games with DRM... So, I got no complaints against DRM, it just means more free games for me.

Assassin's Creed 2 is currently downloading...

Pirating games with DRM just encourages more DRM. You are fueling a vicious cycle.

If you don't want games with DRM, don't buy them, however pirating hurts the cause even more. Publishers see more pirates = lost sales and put more DRM on the games.

Piracy is never justified. Stealing is wrong period.

edit: XKCD is fucking stupid and should never be used in any argument. Here is a counter argument from a GOOD webcomic.

[chrisinajar]

Pirating games with DRM just encourages more DRM. You are fueling a vicious cycle.

If you don't want games with DRM, don't buy them, however pirating hurts the cause even more. Publishers see more pirates = lost sales and put more DRM on the games.

Piracy is never justified. Stealing is wrong period.

I disagree. Take a look at the music industry, basically the entire internet said "If you put DRM on our music, we're going to steal it"... WE WON. iTunes is DRM free, amazon is DRM free, and most other major music carriers are all DRM free now. The battle is still going in the gaming market...

It's a common stance that the gaming industry knows about. The gaming industry is really smart, they just have shitty motivations and goals.  They know about the stance that I take and that many many others take: Never pay for DRM, never pirate DRM-free.

The point of this stance is that, if enough people take it, the industry will see the following trend: The more DRM you put on a game, the more it is pirated. Once that trend is established we win.

edit: XKCD is fucking stupid and should never be used in any argument. Here is a counter argument from a GOOD webcomic.

You really need to stop using your opinions as fact in conversation, it reduces your credibility by leaps and bounds. Try using examples and real world implementations, such as my music analogy above and my rubics cube analogy in your rage thread.

Not only that, but the xkcd comic makes a really fucking good point, which I'm sure you ignored.

[beeji]

YO DOG I HERD YOU LIKED LOGIC SO I PUT A WEB COMIC AS A SOURCE IN UR ARGUMENT/COUNTERARGUMENT SO YOU COULD LOOK STUPID WHILE YOU FLEXED YOUR PCGAMER PENIS

[FuLLBLeeD]

Chris, why does DRM exist in the first place?

If games are pirated, do you honestly think DRM will be removed?

Also, the comic I linked makes a good point too.

Let's say I go to a bank and steal money out of a safe. In response the bank gets better safes with more locks. If I then go and break into the safe again do you think the bank will go "Welp looks like it didn't work let's just go back to the old safe's with no locks!" No, they are going to put even more protection on it.

Pirating games just encourages publishers to put more DRM on their games. Like I said, vicious cycle. Pirate's logic is terrible, its basically "How dare they accuse me of stealing, I'm going to steal to show them who's boss!"

[FuLLBLeeD]

Also, publishers are the one's who push DRM, not developers, so keep in mind who you are ripping off when you steal a game.

[beeji]

Chris, why does DRM exist in the first place?

If games are pirated, do you honestly think DRM will be removed?

Also, the comic I linked makes a good point too.

Let's say I go to a bank and steal money out of a safe. In response the bank gets better safes with more locks. If I then go and break into the safe again do you think the bank will go "Welp looks like it didn't work let's just go back to the old safe's with no locks!" No, they are going to put even more protection on it.

Pirating games just encourages publishers to put more DRM on their games. Like I said, vicious cycle. Pirate's logic is terrible, its basically "How dare they accuse me of stealing, I'm going to steal to show them who's boss!"

This is not an accurate metaphor. An accurate metaphor would be like this:

Let's say I go to a bank to steal money. In response the bank cracks down on security, forcing all who use that bank to be strip and cavity searched. In response, angered citizens become bank robbers.

DRM is not the issue, per say. It's that DRM is making it more difficult to use a product when you pay for it

[FuLLBLeeD]

Chris, why does DRM exist in the first place?

If games are pirated, do you honestly think DRM will be removed?

Also, the comic I linked makes a good point too.

Let's say I go to a bank and steal money out of a safe. In response the bank gets better safes with more locks. If I then go and break into the safe again do you think the bank will go "Welp looks like it didn't work let's just go back to the old safe's with no locks!" No, they are going to put even more protection on it.

Pirating games just encourages publishers to put more DRM on their games. Like I said, vicious cycle. Pirate's logic is terrible, its basically "How dare they accuse me of stealing, I'm going to steal to show them who's boss!"

This is not an accurate metaphor. An accurate metaphor would be like this:

Let's say I go to a bank to steal money. In response the bank cracks down on security, forcing all who use that bank to be strip and cavity searched. In response, angered citizens become bank robbers.

DRM is not the issue, per say. It's that DRM is making it more difficult to use a product when you pay for it

In this situation, wouldn't it be better for everyone if no one stole anything, so the bank didn't have to resort to such measures?

[chrisinajar]

Pirate's logic is terrible, its basically "How dare they accuse me of stealing, I'm going to steal to show them who's boss!"

Please stop ignoring my points.
</conversation>

[beeji]

Chris, why does DRM exist in the first place?

If games are pirated, do you honestly think DRM will be removed?

Also, the comic I linked makes a good point too.

Let's say I go to a bank and steal money out of a safe. In response the bank gets better safes with more locks. If I then go and break into the safe again do you think the bank will go "Welp looks like it didn't work let's just go back to the old safe's with no locks!" No, they are going to put even more protection on it.

Pirating games just encourages publishers to put more DRM on their games. Like I said, vicious cycle. Pirate's logic is terrible, its basically "How dare they accuse me of stealing, I'm going to steal to show them who's boss!"

This is not an accurate metaphor. An accurate metaphor would be like this:

Let's say I go to a bank to steal money. In response the bank cracks down on security, forcing all who use that bank to be strip and cavity searched. In response, angered citizens become bank robbers.

DRM is not the issue, per say. It's that DRM is making it more difficult to use a product when you pay for it

In this situation, wouldn't it be better for everyone if no one stole anything, so the bank didn't have to resort to such measures?

Yes. It would. Along with world peace, everyone having 13 inch cocks and superstar bodies, and incredible intellect. Also, unicorns and golden toilets.

In any situation it would be better if nobody stole anything, but that's unrealistic.

[FuLLBLeeD]

Pirate's logic is terrible, its basically "How dare they accuse me of stealing, I'm going to steal to show them who's boss!"

Please stop ignoring my points.
</conversation>

That was basically what I got from it. By pirating games with DRM you aren't "sticking it to the man" you're just pushing piracy numbers up and publishers see them and put stronger DRM on their games.

[froggeh]

Fullbleed counters Chris' counter to my comic by posting the same comic.  Interesting.

[froggeh]

By the way when World of Goo, a game with no DRM gets pirated the fuck out of, it really hurts the argument.

[Daguava [BBC]]

Yeah froggeh, saw that and thought wtf?

Anyways, this is why I like steam. I buy a game, it updates it for me, and I can load it onto as many comps as I like. The only thing DRM has only successfully done is kept me from installing my game onto my multiple computers. We shouldn't get fucked for paying them.

Back to bitorrent

[froggeh]

Yeah froggeh, saw that and thought wtf?

Anyways, this is why I like steam. I buy a game, it updates it for me, and I can load it onto as many comps as I like. The only thing DRM has only successfully done is kept me from installing my game onto my multiple computers. We shouldn't get fucked for paying them.

Back to bitorrent

Also steam is DRM.