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Author Topic: Investment for the Future  (Read 2034 times)

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Investment for the Future
« on: February 03, 2010, 01:25:55 pm »
Hey guys, just going to throw an idea out there.

I used to be an education major, with my field of study in history. I'm changing my major to just history, possibly double-majoring in political science.

Anyways! I don't need the degree, and neither do any of us if we don't think so. We all like video games, but move from game to game, finding flaws with all of them, especially our beloved TF2.

Why don't we do something about it? I know some of you have some background with computer science, and all of us have background with video games.

Who wants to design video games? All costs, profits and efforts are done in the spirit of the Three Musketeers: All for One and One for All.

I'm sick of being "in the system" and wracking up loan debts, and I can't be the only one in Shens who feels like they're going to college for naught. Why not do something we love on our own terms instead of trying to gamble for our posterity?

Anyone who wants to stop being under the heel of the established pattern, just post here and we'll make it happen.

Mind over matter, start believing it.

I'll call myself a conspiracy theorist if you call yourself a coincidence theorist.

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Re: Investment for the Future
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2010, 02:58:45 pm »
I'm literally the only person here with the skills to write a video game, and until that day changes we wont be writing any games...

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Re: Investment for the Future
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2010, 03:09:18 pm »
My dad's been writing software for over 30 years, he'll be able to teach me to code. I've also got a tablet, decent ability with drawing, and I play drums and write music. So if I can pick up some computer science, I'll be able to do every phase of production. I'm simply looking for other people who want to enjoy the rest of their lives and pick their own course instead of following the cookie-cutter system of higher education and 9 to 5 careers.

Also, why not join up with me Chris? By excluding your talents, you're only making the dream that much harder to realize.

I promise our games won't reference major government conspiracies. :P
« Last Edit: February 03, 2010, 03:10:53 pm by Virally Yours »

I'll call myself a conspiracy theorist if you call yourself a coincidence theorist.

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Re: Investment for the Future
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2010, 03:31:46 pm »
Programming is several orders of magnitude more difficult than what you are currently imagining, I can promise you that. I've taught a lot of people to program. Even people who have dabbled in programming, like PHP developers, cannot begin to understand how hard things like networking in C++ can be.

I have never excluded my talents, I don't know where that came from. I have developer status on several open source projects and have done a decent amount of coding for SHENS...

Unless the game is 2D, your drawing skills are useless for in-game things (but very useful for stuff like menus, textures, loading screens, HUD, etc).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be a negative nancy and belittle your idea. It's literally a dream of mine, I would love it more than anything. I'm just bringing some of the obstacles of reality to your idea. I have started several games, finished one or two, some even in 3d worlds with FPS style gameplay and server side physics...

If you can get a few more people interested, I know a very talented gentleman who can help with game design and backround story writing... He's a good writer, gamer, GM, and friend... I also know another C++ developer more talented than myself who would love to help out...

We need more experienced developers before this can become a reality... I'm all for another side project though, they're fun so long as you recognize that there is little chance of it going anywhere ;)

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Re: Investment for the Future
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2010, 03:34:19 pm »
As of now, the only thing I could contribute is that I'm an artist.

Although, similar to virally, my dad's been coding for most of his life, and is fluent in almost every language. Hopefully, I'll learn a bit from him once I graduate.

Did you remember to feed your gigapet as well? Pokemon...seriously? I'm not that old but... get off my lawn

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Re: Investment for the Future
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2010, 04:03:18 pm »
Update

I talked to my dad about it. He'll bring home tomorrow whatever relevant books he has. So off the top of my head I know that means C++ and a few others that I can't really remember.

Good thing undergraduate is a fucking joke, otherwise I'd never have the time for this. In fact, my job is such that I'll be able to even read for at least 3-4 hours per shift (7 hours). Working only Saturday and Sunday, and packing all my classes on Tuesday and Thursday, I'll have a fair amount of time to get started immediately. :P

Random question Chris, can you change the site so you can save "disable smilies" as a profile/user option instead of per post?

I'll call myself a conspiracy theorist if you call yourself a coincidence theorist.

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Re: Investment for the Future
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2010, 04:27:45 pm »
Random question Chris, can you change the site so you can save "disable smilies" as a profile/user option instead of per post?
I'll see if there's an option for it somewhere... I think you can change your smiley theme to none, or something like that, as opposed to disabling it...
EDIT: Per user setting of smiley themes enabled... it wasn't before... it's in your profile settings.

Also, and this goes out to everyone, while you're learning feel free to IM me at any time... I write in C++ all day every day for work... I'm chrisinajar on everyting, and I'm on gmail chat and AIM all day at work (and most of the day at home) along with IRC 24/7...
« Last Edit: February 03, 2010, 04:30:12 pm by chrisinajar »

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Re: Investment for the Future
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2010, 04:37:06 pm »
Thanks Chris.

Hey, off-hand, do you know the "most useful" languages for programming?

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Re: Investment for the Future
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2010, 04:45:58 pm »
Depending on if people still hate me or not, i wouldn't mind helping out. my only background knowlage in codeing is Visual Basic, which quite frankly is terrible.
But i would very much enjoy helping out both for the learning process but also because i have always wanted to write a game.

But guys think more real world like, if you want to actually do this, start with something small, such as a 2D Game possibly a multilayer Metroid type game.

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Re: Investment for the Future
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2010, 05:44:11 pm »
I was thinking of dicking around with mod tools and stuff while learning to do this. For a standalone effort once I actually know how to code, a 2D fighting game like Street Fighter or whatever would be a good start. I've got two concepts that are both first-person, one shooter and one melee-oriented, but I need to learn how to make do the actual implementation of it into a program.

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Re: Investment for the Future
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2010, 05:49:52 pm »
I Think for now, the best thing to do is to work with hammer a bit or other tools to help us learn from an already functioning game, Or maybe find an open source game and dick around with that. just to grasp the concepts and whatnot.

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Re: Investment for the Future
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2010, 07:55:47 pm »
I'm starting the languages and everything ASAP.

Your arrow will never fly farther than where you aim.

I'll call myself a conspiracy theorist if you call yourself a coincidence theorist.

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Re: Investment for the Future
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2010, 08:05:50 pm »
I'm starting the languages and everything ASAP.

Your arrow will never fly farther than where you aim.
Aim for the moon, if you miss you'll land among the stars. D:

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Re: Investment for the Future
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2010, 08:17:32 pm »
Honestly, the NS2 engine is going to be amazing for things like this... The game logic is written entirely in Lua, which is actually an interpreted language as opposed to C++ which is a compiled language. In non-programmer terms, that means it's easier to write in but a little slower...

I'll write more about it later....

Learn C++... It's the most "powerful"...

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Re: Investment for the Future
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2010, 08:35:45 pm »
All this technological mombo jumbo is confusing me but I can say you have me skills for any kind of art or concepts you want to make.

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Re: Investment for the Future
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2010, 08:44:36 pm »
3D graphics are no joke either, took me a while to make a full model airplane with all the tiny details and move-able parts, shiit took forever. D:

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Re: Investment for the Future
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2010, 08:46:06 pm »
I can also say I used to model guns and animate them for CSS but I never really got that into it and I can do some basic stuff and I lost the programs I used and all so lol.

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Re: Investment for the Future
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2010, 09:09:51 pm »
Im Going To Take a look Into C++ When i have time, now that i have a root idea on how to write code.

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Re: Investment for the Future
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2010, 09:27:09 pm »
I might look into c++ as well. I've got the fundamentals of a few other languages under my belt, so that might help a bit.

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Re: Investment for the Future
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2010, 09:45:03 pm »
Assuming shens stays together long enough, this could be pretty awesome.

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Re: Investment for the Future
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2010, 10:17:21 pm »
I can play the Harmonica!
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Re: Investment for the Future
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2010, 07:28:48 am »

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Re: Investment for the Future
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2010, 08:56:54 am »
I actually have a friend who's really talented at composing music, a wicked natural... He's also very into video games and has volunteered before to make the music for any game I write... This guy: http://www.myspace.com/merancape

So, the technology being used will be dictated directly by a few things here. One is the type of game we're writing... Is it an FPS, RPG, RTS, MMO?... Another is the programming knowledge of the team, currently there is no hope of writing our own FPS or fighter game from scratch, or using any complex C++ driven engines such as Source... To my knowledge, the only suitable engine that we can use for a first or third person view would actually be the NS2 engine, but I can shop around a little more.

That said, before any of this can become possible, we need more programming talent if we're going to be writing anything complex... So that brings our options to one of the following:
  • A game with simple graphics, physics, and little to no real time multiplayer... This is something like a side scroller or an RTS, and the game mechanics need to not depend on real time networking too much... The game's netcode will be laggy, we're probably not going to be digging into interpolation and extrapolation anytime soon... That leaves lag times up several hundred miliseconds with no compensation to make it appear less... That means nothing like Super Smash Bros or Street Fighter would work...
  • Find more programmers! More talent = more options
  • At least 3 of you get good at C++ programming, this will take at least 6 months to get up to speed enough to write anything good, realistically we should be working with people who have at least a year or more of experience under their belts, but we're not making anything cutting edge so it's not a big deal to have noobs on the team...

Finally, anything and everything that is done for this project must be open source, free, and cross platform, or you can count me out right now.

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Re: Investment for the Future
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2010, 04:20:16 pm »
So, after a conversation with my friend and coworker, Brendan, I have some information on the game design I'd like to share with you all!... First off, I am now no longer the only experienced C++ developer in the project, as Brendan is interested in helping out.

Here are the things we've talked about.....

Technical Limitations
We can't do anything, the sky is not the limit. We're a very small team sparse on talent with no real experience at all. Here are some of the key points we've come up with....
  • No 3d at all. The game will be entirely in 2d... That means no FPS's, but still leaves in side scrollers, isometric view, top down... Stuff like that... We have neither the programming nor the art talent to make a 3d game, limiting it to just 2d can give us a better quality end result, because good 2d is better than bad 3d
  • No "real time" networking... What this means is that we can have fast netcode, but we're not going to go into the world of lag compensation. The result of that is that all actions will take time equal to your latency and a given player's latency combined for that player to see an action you do. Think like, 50-300 millisecond lagtime on every action... So exact accuracy of location or events cannot be depended on.
  • There are probably more :P

Organization of Workload
It'll be important for each person to know what they need to do. We think breaking into small teams is the best way to seperate the planning and implementation of the separate entities in an organized manner. Any person can be in any number of teams, and frequently the teams will be working together on things. Much of the inter-team communications will be giving todo lists to the other teams, such as requesting sound effects for certain things, or filling in missing art... Here are the teams we thought of...
  • Engine Team - The team responsible for developing the game engine. The game engine is the core system that drives the graphics, sound, gameplay, netcode... All that stuff... The engine team is not responsible for game content or game logic at all, they are only responsible for making a usable game engine for content to be put into. This team will write almost entirely in C++, and will likely be just Brendan and I, possibly also Daguava (aka "That PHP Guy" when Brendan and I talk about him :P).
  • Game Logic Team - Another programming team, but this time only responsible for game mechanics and the implementation of content. This team is not responsible for creating content, but instead turning all of the content into actual code. This team will be writing almost entirely in Javascript, using the engine created by the engine team.
  • Art Team - This team, obviously, is responsible for creating all of the art for the game. There will be a lot of art to be made, from times, items, players, HUD, menus, enemies.... The list is endless... Similar to the game logic team, this team is not responsible for thinking up the art to be made, but instead creating the art that is required of them.
  • Sound Team - Another obvious team following the same obvious rules... They make the sound that is needed, but are not responsible for creating the game concepts behind the sounds...
  • Game Details Team - While it is assumed that virtually everyone will be designing the game and putting in their opinions on mechanics and stuff, this team handles specifically the very very fine fine details, down to pages of story, fine grained level design, and the logic for the game mechanics. Everyone will be creating ideas, and when we all agree on these ideas this team will flesh them out into the details, creating todo lists for all of the above teams (except the engine team)... This team will also be responsible for bringing important design decisions to everyone, never making large decisions on their own. They only flesh out existing decisions.

Things to keep in mind
This needs to be well though out. If the game isn't going to be played, it's not worth writing. If we're going to make this shit, we might as well put our all into it, else who do it to begin with... I don't want this to be a project that is started and completed in just a few months, this needs to have massive amounts of content and very fun gameplay...
It also needs to be realistic. Basically the opposite of above, while we want a content rich game that's really fun, we also can't make the most detailed RPG game ever made. The game needs to be within our obtainable scope.
This will not be pure fun. It'll be mostly fun, but it will also be a lot of hard work. There will be a lot of tedious things to work on that are repetitive, such as creating 500 tilesets, or sound effects for 100 different swords, or implementing the mechanics for 250 different spells many of which function very similarly.
Not everyone can get started right away. The game engine and details teams can, but the art people rely loosely on the engine team and lightly on the details team, the logic team needs a completed engine and details to implement from the details team... So on and so forth...

We'll probably nominate a few people to run the individual teams, and then also a person or two to run the project as a whole. The purpose of these roles is to keep a final authority when all else fails.... Similarly to how SHENS is run, everyone's opinion will be heard and just about everything will be decided via community discussion and polls, but it's nice a have a final authority to turn to when all else fails. We can discuss that later.

Obviously, everything I've stated is up for discussion, these are just the things that Brendan and I think...

PS: Double post!

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Re: Investment for the Future
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2010, 05:01:34 pm »
My knowledge in PHP isn't exactly extensive, but I've been able to do anything I've set out to do. It's been by no means always efficient, but meh.