Login with username, password and session length

News:

Vent: vent.proshens.com; port 4968

Author Topic: Srs Bsnss HoN  (Read 3865 times)

  • Is A Potato
  • Shen's One
  • *
  • Posts: 70
    • View Profile
Re: Srs Bsnss HoN
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2010, 01:51:30 pm »
You guys can argue it all you want, but it's a matter of irrevocable fact. Some heroes are simply better than others. HoN, like any other video game, is at its core dictated by numbers, algorithms, lines of code. Certain heroes are inarguably better by virtue of the fact that there is a quantifiable and objective set of data that the performance and capability of all units within the "HoN environment" are subject to and controlled by.

Summarized your argument is saying that since there is set boundaries to a game it is impossible that different units have different purposes.    Your logic is too black and white.  For example, if I decided to eat a bowl of cereal and had a choice of a spoon, fork, and knife I would clearly choose the spoon as the other two are ineffective in that situation.  By your logic this makes the spoon the greatest and only useful utensil even though it only helped with that singular problem.  When posed with a different problem say a steak everyone else will be using forks and knives while your still using a freaking spoon.

  • Double Deygit
  • Shen's Macro
  • ***
  • Posts: 282
  • NIOPE
    • View Profile
Re: Srs Bsnss HoN
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2010, 02:21:07 pm »
I've used a spoon for my steak, but im from texas sooooooooo

Holy headbonking humans hosting hostile horses who harass honorable heckling headfigures

  • oENDERo

  • Guest
Re: Srs Bsnss HoN
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2010, 04:12:39 pm »
Summarized your argument is saying that since there is set boundaries to a game it is impossible that different units have different purposes.    Your logic is too black and white.  For example, if I decided to eat a bowl of cereal and had a choice of a spoon, fork, and knife I would clearly choose the spoon as the other two are ineffective in that situation.  By your logic this makes the spoon the greatest and only useful utensil even though it only helped with that singular problem.  When posed with a different problem say a steak everyone else will be using forks and knives while your still using a freaking spoon.
This.

  • Is A Potato
  • Shen's One
  • *
  • Posts: 70
    • View Profile
Re: Srs Bsnss HoN
« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2010, 01:10:39 am »
Ah, thanks for mentioning that as well. We also have knowledge of which heroes have which abilities, etc. As I said, all the information necessary to objectively gauge a hero's worth is available to us. The game is not hard. You click between a small number buttons with straight-forward and hands-off use. Skill hardly comes into the equation. It's just choosing the right heroes and not being an idiot. Zzz.

 That could be stated on any game though.  The ability to discern when and where to use what is just how games are played.  Just like all video games it's a mix of reaction, knowledge and creativity.

  • oENDERo

  • Guest
Re: Srs Bsnss HoN
« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2010, 10:44:11 am »
Ah, thanks for mentioning that as well. We also have knowledge of which heroes have which abilities, etc. As I said, all the information necessary to objectively gauge a hero's worth is available to us. The game is not hard. You click between a small number buttons with straight-forward and hands-off use. Skill hardly comes into the equation. It's just choosing the right heroes and not being an idiot. Zzz.
However, there are some heroes who have skills that are not targeted and have to be timed and aimed pretty precisely, how can you call that without skill?
(Valkyrie's Javelin, Pharoah's Wrath, Forsaken Archer's Volley, Deadwood's  Roots, I can go on with this but anyone can see my point.)

There are actually alot of skills like those, and while there are "hands-off" skills, the good ones tend to be the ones that rely on timing or aim.

  • oENDERo

  • Guest
Re: Srs Bsnss HoN
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2010, 09:12:39 pm »
Doublepost to reiterate that HoN is a fucking huge noob game. Baby's First RTS. Just fucking pussy stun spam. You need to get over the fact that you like an easy noob game.
Sigh... I really hope you are just trolling. You aren't even trying to put up a good argument.

  • Double Deygit
  • Shen's Macro
  • ***
  • Posts: 282
  • NIOPE
    • View Profile
Re: Srs Bsnss HoN
« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2010, 08:30:24 am »
*Annoy Virally* Are you ready to unless the fury?

Holy headbonking humans hosting hostile horses who harass honorable heckling headfigures

  • Banned Virally Yours
  • Administrator
  • I don't shower
  • ******
  • Posts: 2067
  • I want to be a scientist.
    • MSN Messenger - chrisinajar@gmail.com
    • AOL Instant Messenger - chrisinajar
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - chrisinajar
    • View Profile
    • The People's Republic of Shenanigans
    • Email
Re: Srs Bsnss HoN
« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2010, 08:52:15 am »
He doesn't like the game which means he doesn't see the depth. It's true with every game and every genre of music. If you don't like it, you can't see the depth. I want talking to someone the other day who doesn't like D2 and he was talking about how it's stupid and no different than MMO's and that he doesn't see any complexity to the character creation. I was in the car with the lady friend's sister who couldn't tell when one Kansas song ended and the next started. If you take a given genre of music you don't like and listen to a few songs, where a person who enjoys it will see the songs as distinctly different and unique, they'll sound the same to you.

If you don't like it, you will always fail to see the depth (except Dwarf Fortress, everyone see's that games depth).

</your argument>

  • Core Team
  • Shen's Macro
  • *
  • Posts: 305
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Srs Bsnss HoN
« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2010, 11:29:19 am »
No, really, I stopped playing it because it's literally just choosing the best heros and what I described above. I played dota back in WC3 before you faggots were even out of grade school. Hush.
Inb4
 
Guy 1: Hey lets play Street fighter 4!
Guy 2: But I wanna play Street fighter 3.
Guy 1: Man that's for noobs this game requires much more skill and finesse, there's a better character cast and more intricate combos and ulties to use.
Guy 2: Fine...

Ryu vs Ryu!
 
Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken Hadoken
*couldnt get the comic im at school :( *
Also if the best chracter is not Ryu which I highly doubt replace Hadoken with TIGER SHOT!TIGER SHOT!TIGER SHOT!TIGER SHOT!
« Last Edit: February 16, 2010, 11:32:18 am by thebladeofwar »

  • Administrator
  • CopyPasta
  • ****
  • Posts: 845
  • Drob beats, not bombs.
    • AOL Instant Messenger - PArtMusic
    • View Profile
Re: Srs Bsnss HoN
« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2010, 12:03:31 pm »
I played dota back in WC3 before you faggots were even out of grade school. Hush.

Did you ENJOY playing dota?

Did you remember to feed your gigapet as well? Pokemon...seriously? I'm not that old but... get off my lawn

  • Banned Virally Yours
  • Administrator
  • I don't shower
  • ******
  • Posts: 2067
  • I want to be a scientist.
    • MSN Messenger - chrisinajar@gmail.com
    • AOL Instant Messenger - chrisinajar
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - chrisinajar
    • View Profile
    • The People's Republic of Shenanigans
    • Email
Re: Srs Bsnss HoN
« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2010, 01:00:52 pm »
It's like playing heavy: It doesn't take anything to aim, it's all about choosing your battles, choosing your targets, and timing things just right.

  • oENDERo

  • Guest
Re: Srs Bsnss HoN
« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2010, 01:17:05 pm »
It's like playing heavy: It doesn't take anything to aim, it's all about choosing your battles, choosing your targets, and timing things just right.
If you can't understand that i don't think you ever will.

  • oENDERo

  • Guest
Re: Srs Bsnss HoN
« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2010, 01:38:51 pm »
If you're too stupid to actually be part of the debate then do us all a favor and keep the mindless cheerleading to yourself.
I stopped bringing new ideas to the argument because you are too thick headed to listen to them in the first place. If you want me to start saying things, start listening. I see no point in trying to tell you things when all you want to do is ignore what I say and call me stupid.

  • oENDERo

  • Guest
Re: Srs Bsnss HoN
« Reply #38 on: February 16, 2010, 01:41:57 pm »
It god old, but WC3 DotA is a million times better than HoN because it's not just a ton of poorly-named heroes built around 2 stuns and a nuke or 2 nukes and stun.
DotA and HoN are IN ESSENCE the same game... The only thing that's harder about DotA is that the characters are harder to click and the interface is worse.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2010, 05:18:46 pm by oENDERo »

  • oENDERo

  • Guest
Re: Srs Bsnss HoN
« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2010, 08:14:10 pm »
Ender, on one hand you say that I'm not listening to your argument, and on the other you make your argument not worth listening to. You tell me I'm not listening or understanding your argument, yet you never address or debate mine. You merely repeat bland insults or just water down my argument to remove all the supporting logic and merely rebut the simplified and mischaracterized version. So yet again I will repeat how and why HoN sucks.

Defense of the Ancients, a WC3 map that started this, was much better than what we have now. The heroes were originally only the Blizzard-made ones, which were unique and played differently, and did not rely on chaining CC or stacking nukes to do anything. Of course this sort of strategy would be used when possible, as it is very effective. As the minigame got more popular they made more heroes, but as time went on originality and balance were being worked out of DotA due to popular demand for more and more heroes.

Due to being simple in both understanding and implementation, chaining CC and stacking nukes became the favored strategies, and by extension, heroes and hero combinations capable of executing these simple yet effective strategies most frequently and/or to the greatest extent became favorites. What HoN does, is distills DotA into a more extreme version of the popularized DotA: a myriad of unoriginal heroes with abilities that differ only in name and number tweaks.

With the design of the game done with this "generation" of DotA fanatics as the target player base, we have HoN's metagame constructed around, more or less, two very basic mechanics and a notion of balance derived from heroes and counter heroes. Since I've already gone on about the actual logical constructions that dictate balance, I won't go through it again.

Care to actually debate, Ender?
Now see, i didn't play DotA when it first started, so you can actually tell me some things about it. What skills were there that were not a nuke or stun? That's generally been the only type of skills that i've seen even from my limited experience with DotA.

Also, you make it sound like the goal of DotA was different than what it was now. Hasn't the goal always been to kill the heroes on the opposite team and destroy the throne? I don't see how it would be possible to do that without some form of slow, nuke, stun or root.

  • Shen's Macro
  • ***
  • Posts: 349
  • Slam jam
    • AOL Instant Messenger - VortexDark1
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - nordiquefb
    • View Profile
Re: Srs Bsnss HoN
« Reply #40 on: February 16, 2010, 08:16:38 pm »
Could we just flat out stop trolling each other for liking different games? We're supposed to be a family. :(

This is no better than me being a massive faggot and shitting on Brawl all the time.
http://www.isxkcdshittytoday.com/

Quote from: chrisinajar, metagame analysis expert
SF4 is like solving rubics cubes really fast... no real skill required, just motor memory, practice, and fast thinking...

  • oENDERo

  • Guest
Re: Srs Bsnss HoN
« Reply #41 on: February 16, 2010, 08:25:57 pm »
Could we just flat out stop trolling each other for liking different games? We're supposed to be a family. :(

This is no better than me being a massive faggot and shitting on Brawl all the time.
I agree. I don't really like arguing all the time.

  • oENDERo

  • Guest
Re: Srs Bsnss HoN
« Reply #42 on: February 16, 2010, 08:38:55 pm »
Triple post of the year:

Cheez-Its are fucking bomb.
Agreed. Have you tried the white cheddar ones?

  • Administrator
  • CopyPasta
  • ****
  • Posts: 845
  • Drob beats, not bombs.
    • AOL Instant Messenger - PArtMusic
    • View Profile
Re: Srs Bsnss HoN
« Reply #43 on: February 16, 2010, 08:44:15 pm »
Could we just flat out stop trolling each other for liking different games? We're supposed to be a family. :(

This is no better than me being a massive faggot and shitting on Brawl all the time.

I agree. I don't really like arguing all the time.

Don't worry. In actuality, it only brings us closer together.

Also, Tabasco flavored are the best.

Did you remember to feed your gigapet as well? Pokemon...seriously? I'm not that old but... get off my lawn

  • oENDERo

  • Guest
Re: Srs Bsnss HoN
« Reply #44 on: February 16, 2010, 08:46:59 pm »
Don't worry. In actuality, it only brings us closer together.

Also, Tabasco flavored are the best.
They actually have Tabasco ones???
And yeah that is the downside to the white cheddar ones... They only taste good because of the powder.

  • Shen's Macro
  • ***
  • Posts: 349
  • Slam jam
    • AOL Instant Messenger - VortexDark1
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - nordiquefb
    • View Profile
Re: Srs Bsnss HoN
« Reply #45 on: February 16, 2010, 09:36:19 pm »
Cheez It Duos are the best.
http://www.isxkcdshittytoday.com/

Quote from: chrisinajar, metagame analysis expert
SF4 is like solving rubics cubes really fast... no real skill required, just motor memory, practice, and fast thinking...

  • Core Team
  • Shen's Macro
  • *
  • Posts: 305
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Srs Bsnss HoN
« Reply #46 on: February 17, 2010, 09:29:08 am »
Also, I'd like to see someone answer this question honestly. (And of course the assumption is that your combination of heroes isn't ineffective comparatively.)
SCOUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Banned Virally Yours
  • Administrator
  • I don't shower
  • ******
  • Posts: 2067
  • I want to be a scientist.
    • MSN Messenger - chrisinajar@gmail.com
    • AOL Instant Messenger - chrisinajar
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - chrisinajar
    • View Profile
    • The People's Republic of Shenanigans
    • Email
Re: Srs Bsnss HoN
« Reply #47 on: February 17, 2010, 10:37:02 am »
Also, I'd like to see someone answer this question honestly. (And of course the assumption is that your combination of heroes isn't ineffective comparatively.)
While some characters are obviously better all around than others, if you have a team of 100% the best characters, you wont win against a well rounded team. The character selection and most of the higher level strategy comes in here... A team of carries will fail against a well balanced team, that's just the way things work. There are counters for most character combos, there is no one-size-fits-all character combo, although some combos are easier to play and are incorrectly labeled as such.

In the noob games you played (no offense, it's just what they were) these attributes were hardly exposed. When you're playing against people who are new to the game, you can just stomp everyone with Defiler, you are right. Once you graduate into the higher skilled games, the same strategies that once made you stomp entire teams will make you fail horribly and rage quit. Again, this is similar to TF2... You can pub-stomp all you want, but an organized team (djedi, for example) will fuck your life up.

Also, Ender, shut the fuck up. You're ruining my chances of actually having an intelligent conversation with Virally here... I don't even play HoN that much anymore but I felt that I needed to step in because you're too retarded to talk like a grown up. Shut. The. Fuck. Up.

  • Banned Virally Yours
  • Administrator
  • I don't shower
  • ******
  • Posts: 2067
  • I want to be a scientist.
    • MSN Messenger - chrisinajar@gmail.com
    • AOL Instant Messenger - chrisinajar
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - chrisinajar
    • View Profile
    • The People's Republic of Shenanigans
    • Email
Re: Srs Bsnss HoN
« Reply #48 on: February 17, 2010, 10:55:58 am »
You'd have to explain more of the lingo to me. What's a carrier? The only thing I can think of is the high-end air unit for Protoss. =\
A carry is a class that gets lots of kills. You don't want a team of carries, because then if the enemy team has 1 carry, that 1 carry has gotten all their kills, so that 1 carry is 20 times stronger than your 3 combined. Get it, carry, they carry the team... Carries need food (hero kills) to keep up with the enemy carries... If your carry falls behind then you're fucked.

  • Banned Virally Yours
  • Administrator
  • I don't shower
  • ******
  • Posts: 2067
  • I want to be a scientist.
    • MSN Messenger - chrisinajar@gmail.com
    • AOL Instant Messenger - chrisinajar
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - chrisinajar
    • View Profile
    • The People's Republic of Shenanigans
    • Email
Re: Srs Bsnss HoN
« Reply #49 on: February 17, 2010, 11:17:01 am »
I don't see how that differs at all from the model I suggested. It sounds like you're merely picking a specific hero to deal the majority of damage, while another hero would have been picked to provide most of the CC.

Even if that's not exactly it, there's some reason you choose a certain hero to be the carry, and I'm sure it has something to do with its ability to link stuns or throw down massive damage.
Yes, choosing a hero that is good is important. If that makes a game cookie cutter, then every game ever made is cookie cutter :P