Pyro's Shotgun vs. Flare Gun

[Desert Eagle]

Don't hate on the flare gun. It's pretty damn useful if you're a good shot. Unless you're fighting another pyro of course.

Edit by PokieLoli

P.S. Pyro theorycrafting in the Soldier thread, cool.

Fixed, I split the topic.

This post all the way to reply #11 originally from the "Soldier Update?" thread.

[Virally Yours]

Don't hate on the flare gun. It's pretty damn useful if you're a good shot. Unless you're fighting another pyro of course.

It can be good for tagging medics or low-health runners, but it's a weapon that makes the pyro weaker in his "dominant" range and gives him a little effectiveness where he had none.

[safibn]

I like the flare gun.

As for spy, I also enjoy the dead ringer, but not really the C&D

[Virally Yours]

I like the flare gun.

As for spy, I also enjoy the dead ringer, but not really the C&D

The Dead Ringer's actually an alright cloak if you just go combat spy. Just use it to avoid big damage and reposition unseen. You pretty much aren't going to backstab any decent players, though, so it's a definite "fuck that" in my books.

[safibn]

The Dead Ringer's actually an alright cloak if you just go combat spy. Just use it to avoid big damage and reposition unseen. You pretty much aren't going to backstab any decent players, though, so it's a definite "fuck that" in my books.

It's good for non-competitive play.

most people don't know that it's coming.

[Desert Eagle]

It can be good for tagging medics or low-health runners, but it's a weapon that makes the pyro weaker in his "dominant" range and gives him a little effectiveness where he had none.

Dominant range? The pyro is probably the worst class. Shotgun hardly makes up for any shortcomings he has and the flare gun helps because let's not forget that being on fire is an almost guaranteed ~60 damage plus minicrits. The pyro may not get credit for the kill due to the flare gun but lets not forget that this is team fortress, not me fortress.

[safibn]

Dominant range? The pyro is probably the worst class. Shotgun hardly makes up for any shortcomings he has and the flare gun helps because let's not forget that being on fire is an almost guaranteed ~60 damage plus minicrits. The pyro may not get credit for the kill due to the flare gun but lets not forget that this is team fortress, not me fortress.

There is no I in team, but there is an I in win. Pyro is awsome with the flaregun. And once in a while you do get a kill, usually after a minicrit shot.

[Virally Yours]

Dominant range? The pyro is probably the worst class. Shotgun hardly makes up for any shortcomings he has and the flare gun helps because let's not forget that being on fire is an almost guaranteed ~60 damage plus minicrits. The pyro may not get credit for the kill due to the flare gun but lets not forget that this is team fortress, not me fortress.

I'd say engineer is the worst class. At any rate, the shotgun makes the pyro more potent than the flaregun. He can deal more damage and more reliably. He's already miles behind the competitive mainstays, the flaregun merely exacerbates this by weakening his direct combat ability.

[safibn]

I'd say engineer is the worst class. At any rate, the shotgun makes the pyro more potent than the flaregun. He can deal more damage and more reliably. He's already miles behind the competitive mainstays, the flaregun merely exacerbates this by weakening his direct combat ability.

For competitive play, yes, the shotgun is the better choice. I jsut gotta learn that and stop using flares.

[Desert Eagle]

The flare gun at least gives him some range whereas the shotgun gives him none. With the shotgun he's close range or nothing, with the flare gun he can fuck up stragglers and medics enough to help his teammates finish them off. All of this of course is assuming you have a pyro that actually knows what he is doing.

[Virally Yours]

For competitive play, yes, the shotgun is the better choice. I jsut gotta learn that and stop using flares.

Competitive players use the weapons and classes they do because it gives them a better chance of winning.

This game has nothing to do with class variety or different playstyles. You either play 1 of 3 classes, get to be a healbot, or chill in pubs forever.

[Xx_sasukefan85_xX (jeed)]

After the flame range nerf (read:fix) the pyro is no longer completely dominant within his personal space bubble.  Fire detection lags so much that it takes WAY too long to get the person you're trying to kill to catch on fire so you can push them into a wall and axt them.  This means two things, as far as the shotgun/flaregun go:

1) Fire is more valuable.  Since you can no longer throw fire, the only way to get fire over a half-decent distance is the flaregun.  It does some pretty good damage too, if you can aim it.  And I don't mean "hey, it's better than nothing" pretty good, I mean "healthkit or you're screwed" pretty good.
2) Hitscan is more valuable.  At close range, like I said, fire lags way too far behind the flamethrower to consistently use effectively.  The new shotgun buff that causes one of the pellets to be guaranteed accuracy is also helpful.

However, there's not a lot of reason to be scared of pyros anymore.  They have to lead so much at close range that you're pretty safe until they find the way you're moving and adjust properly, or happen to catch you while spraying randomly.  Overall the pyro is going to inspire less "NO WAY I WAS NOWHERE NEAR YOU" but at the total cost of their usefulness, since they can now no longer consistently do anything at all.  Not worth the effort required to get kills anymore, IMO.


P.S. Pyro theorycrafting in the Soldier thread, cool.

[Virally Yours]

This is where I have to disagree. With the flamethrower's range fixed (reduced), I think the shotgun's even more important. 90 damage per hit in that range far outweighs the benefit of 30+afterburn on random snipers at long range. The shotgun's just meatier.

[Xx_sasukefan85_xX (jeed)]

30+afterburn is 80.  If you land a second shot it's (30+)41+afterburn, which is about 125 with afterburn between shots.  They're more or less equal now, and just for different situations (maps).  Shotgun makes you more likely to win at close-medium range, where you're supposed to be.  Flare gun makes you more likely to survive at medium-long range, where you'll probably be instead.  Afterburn tends to make people run away for healthkits instead of exploit your lack of range.

[Virally Yours]

30+afterburn is 80.  If you land a second shot it's (30+)41+afterburn, which is about 125 with afterburn between shots.  They're more or less equal now, and just for different situations (maps).  Shotgun makes you more likely to win at close-medium range, where you're supposed to be.  Flare gun makes you more likely to survive at medium-long range, where you'll probably be instead.  Afterburn tends to make people run away for healthkits instead of exploit your lack of range.

But you're worse when you actually have to be in a direct engagement.

[Let It Riot]

hitscan is always better, so shotgun, besides 85 or so damage per hit is too good to pass up when fighting soldiers or other pyros.

[Xx_sasukefan85_xX (jeed)]

But you're worse when you actually have to be in a direct engagement.

I somehow forgot to respond to this.  <_<

Yes.  I said that, though in different words.

Shotgun makes you more likely to win at close-medium range, where you're supposed to be.  Flare gun makes you more likely to survive at medium-long range, where you'll probably be instead.